Friday, September 12, 2008

McCain/Palin -- Lies, all lies!

via Andrew Sullivan.

And for something sillier, from the same source, "Les Misbarack":


Jeff said...

Unreal. The first one in particular. McCain is taking the Willie Horton road. Capitalize on white America's sexual fear of black men. Why not? It's worked before, no reason to think it won't work again...

McCain will do anything. The guy who just picked this rabid right-winger as his running mate really wanted to pick Joe Lieberman. What a phony.

crystal said...

I've read that the McCain interview with The View is one of the best interviews of him. Haven't read it yet myself.

cowboyangel said...

This video and the Jon Stweart one I posted would be great if they were actually seen by people who still weren't sure who to vote for. But are they ever seen by people like that? Obama could take the first part of your video, w/ Rachel Maddow, and use that as a commercial.

On the other hand, Obama needs to move away from simply responding to McCain's lies and continue hammering his own themes.

cowboyangel said...

I saw a good line yesterday that fits with your first video.

"McCain's not running against Obama. He's running against reality."

jazzycat said...

rabid right-winger! LOL... What is your example of a rabid left-winger!

Also, Fact- Obama voted for a sex-education bill that included kindergarten in spite of the meaningless spin that the "rabid left-winger" MSNBC former Air America lady gave..

Fact! Although Obama's former church has taken down their website, I copied the following from the "About us" description in February of this year: We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," Hmmmmmmm! Excuse me, but I would prefer the President of the United States attend a church where the members identify themselves as "American people."

Liam said...

Jazzycat --

I like to have you come by -- I appreciate your point-of-view. But please be careful about tone. Go to Jeff's site -- he's a very thoughtful, moderate person.

The bill you're talking about taught kindergarteners about how to avoid sexual predators, just the same as boy scouts do -- do you have a problem with that?

As far as the church goes -- let me tell you about my wedding. The rehearsal dinner was celebrated in an Irish pub with Irish musicians in honor of my heritage. My wife is West African, so the wedding celebration featured African food and music, and we were in African dress.

Does this make us any less American?

Do I need to remind you of the brutal way the ancestors of African-Americans were ripped from their homes and their cultures? They can't have the same chance to develop the identity of origins that Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, etc., have?

jazzycat said...

From Boy Scout website:
Recognize situations that place you at risk of being molested, how child molesters operate, and that anyone could be a molester.
Resist unwanted and inappropriate attention. Resistance will stop most attempts at molestation.
Report attempted or actual molestation to a parent or other trusted adult. This prevents further abuse and helps to protect other children. Let the Scout know he or she will not be blamed for what occurred

From Illinois SB 0099:
13 Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV

I would respectfully point out that the Illinois bill would require too information on the details of sexual behavior and I certainly would not want my kindergarten child being exposed to these graphic details. Also, kindergarten age is too young to be involved in scouting and the minimum age for boy scouting is age 11. As shown above, even for older children the information provided to scouts is much less graphic than the Illinois bill provides.

I will honor your request on tone, but I believe to call Sarah Palin a rabid right-winger is a bit much. The political scale does not extend from liberals as mainstream to conservatives as rabid right-wingers. The actual scale is from left to right with a center referred to as moderate. Obama is certainly as far to the left as Palin is to the right which I guess would make him a rabid left-winger using Jeff’s logic. McCain on the other hand is much nearer the center (moderate) than Obama.

Please let me know if you do not wish to have dissenting opinions and I will not bother you.

As to your wedding: You are comparing apples to oranges. Let me say that I would not go to a church that expressed an allegiance to one racial group over another or any country over the USA. My church is Presbyterian Church of America if you want to check it out.

Liam said...

Hi Jazzycat --

This will be my last post for the day, since I have a lot of work to do, but you're welcome to comment more.

I took your comment seriously and looked into the question. has a good article on the ad, which it claims is misleading on a number of accounts. The bill does contain the excerpt you quoted and is, as you said, more explicit than the boy scout guidelines (mea culpa). However, it also stresses age-appropriateness and the option for parents to opt out. In context, it seems very sensible.

More importantly, Obama voted for the bill, but he didn't author it. He has much more education credentials under his belt, and the McCain campaign is lying about it.

On Trinity Church: this is not "expressing allegiance to one racial group over another," it is ministering to a specific community. Trinity Church is affiliated with the United Church of Christ, which is largely white in makeup. There is a black church tradition in this country that stems from our brutal history of racism and has as part of its mission the rebuilding of a shattered black identity.

I belong to a Catholic parish in New York. We have a large Hispanic component in our area, and half of our Masses are not only in Spanish, but culturally attuned to a different approach to worship -- louder music, more charismatic, etc. That is ministering to their community, respecting it, answering to their needs. This does not discriminate against me as an English-speaking guy who likes Palestrina.

Black Churches often minister to populations who are beset by social problems and who feel not only abandoned, but targeted as criminals by white society. So they say "it's okay to be black."

As far as tone goes, I only ask respect for the commentators here (e.g., no sarcastic "LOLs"). Like I said in a earlier comment, it's obvious that we're both passionate about these topics, which is fine. Still, you must realize that this blog is not pro-GOP and the people here, including myself, may say rather brutal things about McCain and Palin when warranted. That does not mean we're not open to different opinions.

Jack said...

Jazzycat, could you cite something in the Illinois sex education program for kinderagetners that you think is inappropriate. Sex education should start as early as possible,except, I guess, for parents who are afraid of sex, and the church who has the same fear. Priest must never THINK of sex. I am Catholic. Jack

Jeff said...


Jazzycat is not, in case you didn't notice, and I'm willing to bet you anything that he couldn't give a flying fig what priests do and don't think of.

Jack said...

Jeff, I believe he identifies himself as Presbyterian. I could be wrong. My point was that, as a Catholic, I think there (catholic) teaching on sex is insane. My point was sexual ignorance can be found anywhere, even in my Church. I would still like jazzycat to give me a specific classroom example of misuse of sex education in Illinois. Jack

Jeff said...

Why make that point? What does if have to do with what you want to know? Jazzycat isn't Catholic and neither is Barack Obama. Why drag the Catholic Church into it?

Jack said...

I am disturbed by all anti-sex fanatics. My point was they can be found anywhere. Jack

Jeff said...

I'm not going to speak for Jazzycat, but I imagine he'd object to being called an anti-sex fanatic simply because he objects to sex-ed for elementary school children.

Jazzycat is here discussing politics, not religion.

Do you often introduce yourself to Born-again Christians with attacks upon the Catholic priesthood and hierarchy? What point do you think that makes? What are you telling them that they don't already know?

If you want to take an objection to HIS religious views, deal with HIS religious views instead of throwing clergy under the bus from the very faith you profess to belong to.

Or so you claim.

It reminds me of when you attempted to catholicize Sarah Palin, even though Ms. Palin obviously considers her Catholic baptism to have been void and worthless.

Jack said...

hey, Jeff, you're losing it. I never tried to "catholicize" Palin.

And you're sure right. I think people who oppose 'age appropriate' knowledge about our bodies are nuts. I quess I'll tell my grandkids babies come from flowers.

Religion and politics are separate???. Hey, wake up! To the Church (yes, and to Chaput)politics is nothing I can tell but forcing their strange views on sex on all Americans. Jack

Jeff said...

quess I'll tell my grandkids babies come from flowers

Well, you can tell them whatever you like, but you are right about one thing in that respect. You or their parents should be the first ones telling them about that stuff.

Jack, I'm sorry if you're 73, and I'm sorry if you're having prostate trouble... if anything you say about yourself can be believed... but the one who is really obsessed about sex is you.

Jack said...

Jeff, I thought better of you. Jack

Jeff said...

Come on, will you? You've been telling that to me and plenty of other people in the Catholic blogosphere for over a year now.

Jack said...

Jeff, name some. Jack

Jeff said...

Well, let's see now. How about this one?

Each blog or blogger I mention brings to mind the words of Joseph Welch to Joe McCarthy: 'Sir, have you no decency.' The blogs or bloggers below have a reckless disregard for that decency Welch spoke about. In no particular order;

Jeff. Can't be disagreed with. Incredibly arrogant. Encourages rather distateful emails.

William. "Cowboy" something. Invites you in and then is told by someone to block commenter. Apparently William is someones "patsy."

Liam: Had possibilities, but became so enchanted with Obama that even Obama supporter is 'out' if even a suggestion is made that Obama might do something different.

"Sandlestrap" something. Combines arrogance and bigotry. Claims to be working on some kind or religion degree. Warning churches. Watch out for this guy.

Garpu. The ultimate sycophant.

Jack said...

Sarah....excuse me showed no comments or posts where I said "I thought better of you.".Yes I disagree with other bloggers, but you can't produce anything where I said "I thought...." Want to try again? Incidentally my characteration of you was right on target as you prove in recent comments. Jack

Jeff said...

Ha! Touche, Jack! That was excellent!

When you said that I had no common decency, that I was incredibly arrogant, that no one could disagree with me, etc...etc..., and then you said today "I thought better of you", I didn't realize just how low you were hodling the bar as far as I was concerned!

That was awesome. Very well done, I applaud you.

Jack said...

Sarrah Jeff, you are becoming incoherent. As you know at one time I did think highly of you. But your defense of highly vicious personal E-mails, and your refusal to condemn such because it was sent by "your friend", your lies, and your insults to newer catholics made me lose respect for you. I thought you had improved, but... BTW my blog is always open; you can search it. You have not allowed me on yours since I caught you in a falsehood. Jack

Jeff said...

No, Jack, you told me to bar you. Remember?

Apologize to Mike? You've got to be crazy. What is it with you and Mike? Bar me. Jack


OK, "jack"/"alice"/"robert"/"frank"

Which one of "you" wrote this in the first comment on this thread?

listen joe, this is alice for jack. let's face it you're a 'nervous nelly'. but your not alone; i'll match up with you. any tine one of my kids or grandkids sneezed it was the start of a fatal illness. i'm sure that's you too. no psycholoists can make you different. the odds are with you by a wide margin, but you don't always win. we lost a son.don't be afraid to get panicky. that's just the way we are about our kids.
now back to theology. on a post weeks ago you said the church's official position was "error has no right to exist." i know the church
has said this for centuries. how do you interpret this and what practical implications does it have?
by the way my blog is liberal catholic sports music and my screen name is jack/joe
john haynes | Homepage | 09.13.07 - 2:51 pm | #

Jack said...

Boy,Sarah Jeff, you just can't be honest. Alice identified herself as writing the comment. She then identified the blog owner. Trying to squirm out as you usually do.

Of course, I said "bar me" after you laid down insulting conditions including I apologize to your friend "Mike" who sends nasty e-mails. What is it between you and "Mike"? I thought you were a cut above sending nasty e-mails.

My conscience is clear. You'd better get to 'confession.'

Of course you didn't answer what I said about your tactics. Afraid to, I suspect. Jack

Jeff said...

Nice try, Jack, but that's an absolutely pathetic response. No reasonable person would believe that. The similarity in tone and the style of the various characters who've posted under your profile, along with the consistent problems with punctuation and capitalization have been noted by more than one person, I assure you.

Since you keep on bringing up the topic of "Mike's nasty emails" let's have a look a the only exchange that I know about. We can let others decide who is being nasty and hateful and who should have a clear conscience. I don't think it's you... Robert.

Here is Mike, after one of your anti-Catholic screeds:

Jack, Alice and Robert:

Quick note to comment upon how very remarkably similar are your writing styles, vocabulary and distaste for Catholic culture and traditions. It's almost as, it can't be.

One wonders why those who examine Catholicism so closely but find it so grotesque, really...continue to bother. It would seem that moving on to probe another religious tradition would be preferable to beating a dead horse.

Just trying to understand.

Mike McG...

And here was your charming response:

Your first paragraph is crude as I guess one must expect on blogs. I suggest you try cancer of the prostate, bladder and possibly kidney for four years. 67 straight days of radiation and heavy doses of medication every day. Alice is a lifelong catholic with ancestors in the Church that few can match.She is pro choice and pro contraceptive. Jack is actually more conservative than Alice on these issues. I have little sympathy with Catholicism and hate to see Jack join in with jerks like you. As to the similarities in style I thought I explained that I was using Jack's thoughts and words as closely as possible. For example the last question to Anna is almost verbatim from a discussion on Joe's blog a couple of years ago. Maybe you saw earlier that the first time I wrote for Jack I initialed where the writing was primarily mine. Alice said that was not necessary.Jack and Alice's daughter is a bit upset about Jack blogging for fear of running into creeps like you.. So I will get off so you can send more anonymous e mail I must not think that. Robert.

Jack said...

Jeff, Your penchant for lieing is amazing. Just a couple of points then I'll bring everyone up to date.

First, where did you get the e-mail sick mike sent to me. I think you wrote it or certanly inspired it. As to the similarities in style etc. I don't see it but two or three were posted at my suggestion when I was too ill to post.

It is most reassuring that a person with cancer of the prostate and bladder can be berated by your type.

Robert C.A. is my cousin from San Jose Cal. who was here to help. Frank is a friend of my great nephew who Alice and I are helping.Alice is my wife.

When I started thinking about uniting with the Catholic Church,I wanted to find some information from some blogger who might be of help. I read blogs but had never had one. On several ocassions I thanked Jeff and others for their help. I ask Jeff if I could tell him some personal family things that were of concern to me. He said yes and was most helpful, and he would never reveal them. He became increasingly angry with me and had, I believe, a friend send an insulting e-mail. When I protested he laid down arrogant conditions for me to see his blog.

Now, here we are. He feels quite confident he has the upper hand, because he has personal information about me, which he obviously plans to use if not already using it. But we all know "don't give in to 'blackmail." No, not legally blackmail but still a person like Jeff will stop at nothing.

Now those of you who 'love' Jeff need to know what he really is. A highly dishonorable person who slanders others (RCA, Alice,Frank) and who puts to shame the word "Catholic" and "Christian."

Anyone who reads this can decide what is going on. I know. Jeff knows. Let your conscience be your guide. Jack

Jeff said...

Jack, you are suffering from paranoid delusions and you need psychiatric help.

What you told me in confidence (as much as disclosing something on a public blog can be considered telling someone something in confidence in the first place) will remain that way. I have told no one and I have no interest in telling anyone. As a matter of fact, when I saw "alice" on sitemeter, perusing your posts when I thought you were incapacitated, I went through great lengths to delete them so they wouldn't be seen. Little did I know at the time that it was just you whose visits I was seeing. I'm note interested in blackmailing you, you absurd narcissist. Get over yourself.

If anything you say is to be believed:

Cancer of the bladder and prostate? Perhaps so. If so, I'm sorry. Perhaps you'd be better advised in concentrating on issues related to your own health and the possibility of mortality. Perhaps you ought to concentrate more on spending more time with your loved ones, putting your life in perspective, and looking after your own soul instead of obsessing over the Catholic Church's teachings on sex on blogs with perfect strangers. For a man suffering with prostate cancer, you seem to have an extraordinary interest in matters sexual.

As for your other interest... You said on Crystal's blog that we don't understand Middle America. I understand this about Middle America - There are all of about 17 Catholics in Tulsa, where you live. Conservative Christians get under your skin, do they? Instead of raving on about Baptists, Southern Baptists, Sevent Day Adventists, Methodists, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminian fundamentalists, Christian Zionists, Trinitarian Pentecostals, Oneness Pentecostals, Dispensationalists, Amillenialists, Premillenialists, Dominionists, Charismatics, the Word-Faith Movement, Prosperity-Gospel, Anglicans, Jehovah's Witneses, and all of the other groups you're surrounded by out there, what is your obsession? Catholicism. You're nothing but a garden variety bigot, but I'll prove to you what a lousy Christian I am anyway. Piss off.

As for Mike, I've never met him, but I consider him a friend. I asked him to tell me what the whole email flap was about, and he showed me. No, I don't know Mike well, but I'm not about to throw him or anyone else under the bus to appease your bullying behavior. I can forgive you for the things you say about me. I don't have the right to forgive you for what you say about others, even to the point of devoting whole blog posts to excorciating them and their character.

If anything you say is to be believed, you are not a lonely outcast, but you are in fact surrounded by a loving support network.

Therefore, your bullying behavior can't be excused. I don't agree with the steps that some others have taken in their misguided solicitude of you, which simply enables you in your bullying. You ruin blogs all over the place. Joe Cecil's, mine, Crystal's, Catholic Wintetime in Milwaukee... You don't deserve solicitude. You deserve opprobrium.

We obviously don't and won't get along. May we go our separate ways?

Jack said...

Jeff, I thougt McCain/Palin were setting the record for lies. I'm not sure now.

You make a series of charges without one shred of evidence. I will make some brief responses, which your comments suggest.

You are apparently severely sexually disoriented. Many discsuss the Church's attitude on this subject which obviously sends you into spasms of selfloathing. Yes, you fathered children. It must have a been a disgusting and traumatic experience for you.

You have that smug eastern snobbery I suggest is your defense for your ugly temper.

Your hatred of all religions except your own may tell us something.

Your dishing out dirt on others blogs because you 'block' your blog, does suggest a fear of different opinions.

My daughter, Meg's, objection to blogging on the grounds there are creeps out there suggests her prescience.

Slinging mud without any proof suggests your inability to be rational.

Yes, I critisize the church on its attitude to sex; especially now that I see what it apparently did to you.

I pray for your wife and your(?) children. I will try to pray for you. Jack

Jeff said...

I pray for your wife and your(?) children. I will try to pray for you. Jack

I hear you. They'd better be mine. I'm paying a boatload of money to to put them through private school.

You know something? Having had a night to sleep on it, it occurs to me that I haven't given that blackmail thought of yours nearly enough consideration.

It's an intrigiuing idea. Now you've piqued my interest. I could always use a little more cash.... Hmmm. How much would you be willing to pay to keep your story secret?

Listen, mug... Ya want that little secret of yours to stay under wraps? Well, you'd better pay up, see? And no going to the cops, or it winds up all over town. Nyaah, see?

Jack said...

Hi, matie,araaa. I just figured it out,araaa. Boston, Cardinal Law, two young men (boys) Jeff and Mike. Araaf. Can you ever forgive me. I can only guess what you have been through.

Trying to find hairshirt which I promise to wear like Thomas More. Unlike More, I did not abuse my children. Aaar. Jack

Jeff said...

Oh, better far to live and die
Under the brave black flag I fly,
Than play a sanctimonious part
With a pirate head and a pirate heart.

Away to the cheating world go you,
Where pirates all are well-to-do,
But I'll be true to the song I sing,
And live and die a Pirate King!

Jack said...

Gilbert and Sullivan. Your musical taste is improving. Miracles DO happen!!! Michigan State 13, ND 0. Maybe two miracles in a day. Just third quarter. Keep those beads rattling! Jack