Wednesday, March 07, 2007

Vote for Patron Saint of Historians

UPDATE: The polls are closed -- here are the results.

Congregation of the saints at the last judgment, German, fifteenth century.

All right, it's time to vote. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell everyone that we are going to vote to decide who will be the patron saint of history. This is the first time I've used the poll, so I hope it works. There is information on all the candidates in the previous post and its comments thread.

24 comments:

crystal said...

A poll! I changed horses in mid-stream, bagged Jerome and voted for de Lubac.

Sandalstraps said...

I put my limited Protestant weight behind Eusebius, him being the first church historian and all. And, of course, as one who believes that all are saints, I am entirely undaunted by the Vatican's failure to recognize his sainthood.

Liam said...

Wow, the field is opening up -- I wish the Democratic primaries were a bit more like it.

Crystal -- I think you might have been the only one to vote for poor, grumpy Jerome. But he already has a few things to be patron of anyway.

Chris -- That's what I was thinking. Of course, Catholic theology does not hold that only those recognized by the church are saints, only that the official saints can be venerated. I would agree with Karl Rahner in at least hoping that everyone will get into heaven.

Talmida said...

I am going to abstain, since most of my knowledge of history is derived from bad movies and good novels.

I'm still kicking myself for not thinking of Thomas More earlier (thank you Josephine Tey for The Daughter of Time).

Grrrr...

So will there be an official inauguration for the winner? A quick note to the Pope informing him?

;)

Liam said...

Well, Talmida, then you seem more knowledgable about saints then voters on this side of the Canadian border are about politics, and they vote anyway!

I may send a letter to the Vatican.

Jeff said...

I agree. We don’t need no canonizations.

You know, Eusebius is a really good choice… but he was too cozy with Arius, which is probably why he didn’t make the cut for canonization.

I’m going to go with old Raz.

We might need a playoff round. If we do, maybe Talmida’s Thomas More nomination can get on the list.

Andrew said...

I am for More. In his stead, though, I'm putting my chips on Jerome.

He's no saint, but what of Occam?

Liam said...

Andrew -- Occam rules, but I don't think he wrote any history (I could be wrong).

Liam said...

Jeff -- someone else brought up the Eusebius "problem"... it's sort of like one of those things that come up during a campaign and sink it. All over the blogosphere people will say "Eusebius is running for patron saint of historians but what about his association with Arius?" I can't wait to see the 527 organization ads about it.

cowboyangel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Liam said...

Of course in the noise machine of the blogosphere, Eusebius of Caesarea, who was (eventually) orthodox, will be confused with Eusebius of Nicomedia, an out and out Arian.

cowboyangel said...

Hmmm... Perhaps we should have gone with Our Lady of HISTORY. That sounds bigger, bolder, more important. Our Lady of Historians suddenly makes me think of a bunch of PhD dweebs at a conference, pushing and shoving each other to get close to Our Lady after her paper on "Mariology and Gender Issues," so they can petition her for a tenure track position at Notre Dame.

Oh, nice swiftboating tactics against Eusebius, Jeff. We'll ignore the fact that you have two candidates in this race and assume that your "too cozy with Arius" remark was perfectly innocent. As far as I know, Mr. Rove - uh, I mean, Jeff - Eusebius DID agree in the end to the Nicene Creed. Am I mistaken there?

Oh, wait, what's this about Erasmus: "All of his works were placed on the Index of Prohibited Books by Paul IV, and some of his works continued to be banned or viewed with caution in the later Index of Pius IV."

And why were his books prohibited by the Church? For "dabbling in dangerous scriptural criticism that weakened the Church's arguments against Arianism."

So, who's getting cozy with Arius now?

I'm sure, in time, you would have mentioned that interesting little fact as well.

Oh, and then there's this little tidbit about Henri de Lubac: "His orthodoxy had become suspect after he showed that Francisco Suárez, favorite authority of Neo-Thomism, had actually commented on some works by Aquinas which were now known to be spurious."

I'm sure you're not saying that suspect orthodoxy is okay for Modern-day, Vatican II-loving "theologians" but not for Eusebius.

Wait, make that Modern-Day, Vatican II-loving FRENCH "theologians."

I don't mean to criticize your candidates, Jeff. They're both fine men and would make excellent Patron Saints, though perhaps not for Historians. Historians simply can't afford to pray to someone (Erasmus) whose books have all been banned. How would they ever get tenure?! I simply want to point out that Eusebius was not alone in having some "issues." We're all flawed human beings who desperately depend upon the mercy of Our Lord. We all make mistakes. You can't expect these people to be saints.

Oh, right . . . well, okay you can expect SOME of them to be saints.

Anonymous said...

DE LUBAC = FRANCE!

crystal said...

Did I fail to mention I carry Frog blood in my veins from both sides of my family? Vive de Lubac!

Jeff said...

Well, who knew that Eusebius had a “war room” for his campaign? Are you the Paul Begala attack dog for the Eusebius camp, or are you his paid political blogger? You Texas Democrats… You’re all alike…

You criticize my double nominatrion? Don’t think that the rest of us didn’t notice that St Lorenzo’s snake oil nomination you put in there as a stalking horse designed to split the Bede vote and derail his surging campaign.

As for Erasmus, he made powerful enemies among the special interest classes with In Praise of Folly, so I’m not surprised by the level of vituperation being aimed his way. If the leadership and the whips had listened to his advice regarding the ballooning debt, cost overruns, and the questionable fundraising practices for the “Big Dig” project as St. Peter’s, perhaps Martin Luther wouldn’t have been able to walk away with half the party. Even after that, Erasmus was the only guy with the stones to debate him

I’ll have you know that Henri de Lubac was a very fine chanson singer. Not as good as Yves Congar, but pretty darned good just the same…

As for Eusebius? Ann Coulter tells me he was a “faggot”.

cowboyangel said...

Crystal - Frog blood in your veins?!?!? Sounds like it would be terribly painful. :-)

I have a few drops myself. Interestingly, from the Mexican side. I'm guessing it has something to do with the French occupation of Mexico from 1861-1867. But I'd like to know more. This must account for my love of French films and French music.

cowboyangel said...

Karl,

I mean, Jeff,

A Texas Democrat?!?!? I've never been so insulted in my life. I'm a Texas Anarchist-Republican. That is, I want a Free and Independent Texas, a return to our glorious past as the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC! End the U.S. Occupation of Texas!

I simply mentioned St. Lorenzo. How was I to know that Liam would put him on the list?

the “Big Dig” project as St. Peter’s, perhaps Martin Luther wouldn’t have been able to walk away with half the party.

:-)

I didn't realize De Lubac was a chanson singer. I take back everything I said. I'll look for his CD on frogmusic.com.

Ann "Edgar Winter" Coulter reeks of sulphur. If anyone wants to send money to the Eusebius campaign to combat these kinds of terrible and unethical tactics, I've set up a Paypal account in my name. Send me the money and I promise to give it to Eusebius the next time I see him.

Jeff said...

Ann "Edgar Winter" Coulter reeks of sulphur

Nah, I'm not going to pony up to your fund now that you've insulted Edgar Winter so grieviously...

Now, that there Anne Coulter... That is a truly malevolent woman.

cowboyangel said...

By the way, it's okay if I vote more than once, right? I mean, we're following Texas-style voting, aren't we? If LBJ could have dead people vote for him, I just assumed . . .

Not that I have voted more than once.

Just inquiring.

Jeff said...

Well, if you don't vote more than once, it doesn't look like your boy Eusebius is goin to catch old Bede.

I'm a Texas Anarchist-Republican.

What the heck is an Anarchist-Republican anyway? Someone who thinks that no laws should fetter the activities of trans-national corporations? I'm sorry, but you folks have been running things for far too long. :-)

Yeah, it looks like the Venerable Bede is going to carry the day. I have to point out though, that he only has a plurality... I hope Liam doesn't think this means that he'll have a mandate.

cowboyangel said...

No laws should fetter the activities of transnational corporations, but we should blow up the transnational corporations and establish chicken-fried steak restaurants and beer joints in their place.

Property is theft, but a good barbed wire goes a long way to preventing the theft of property. And cattle, of course.

Duct tape will always fix things better than government intervention.

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. But you better get off your ass and dig those post holes or you're gonna get a whippin' from Pa.

Each human being is free to do as he or she pleases, but if you eject Willie Nelson for that damn ABBA tape, we're gonna have us a little brawl.

These are some of the tenets of Texas Anarchism.

****

Hey, yeah, Bede the Vulnerable isn't getting a majority, is he?

I smell runoff!

Oh, great Election Committee Chairman in the Blog Sky (unelected and all-powerful), unless there are some late absentee ballots coming in from the U.K., I don't see the Bede-Meister getting 50.1% How rule you, oh wise and compassionate one?

Liam said...

At this point, there are twenty-five votes and Bede has 34% over his nearest competitor. In most political systems I encourage run-off elections (then we all could have voted for Nadar, at least once), but considering I had to bug everyone I know just to get 25 people to vote, I think if Bede maintains his lead over the weekend, I might just do a Supreme Court on him.

Gabriele C. said...

I linked to the poll on my blog, and since many of my regular readers are from the UK, I suppose Bede will get some more votes. :)

Liam said...

Hmm... I might leave the polls open a day or so more and see comes by.